Talk:LocDB draft (Request for comments)

Thank you Hans for a detailed description of DBdraft and also for putting it under discussion. Below a few points I'd like to make and to hear a word from you here and there. LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Luke, first of all, let me say I'm sorry to have set you on the wrong track. This draft is very old and many ideas from the early beginings have been modified essencialy. Well, some basic concepts have still survived. Unfortunately, most of the current plans aren't written anywhere, but only exist in my mind or have partly been condensed in my hackings. I hope I will be able to present an alpha state version before my summer hollidays. Anyway, most of what I would like to have is not yet implemented. It's just about to get the basic location DB framework running stable.


 * Here the current concept in short: The complete input side of the locDB will run on its own, massively hacked wiki. It is based on HTML forms, not on templates as described here. There is a framework that handles revisions, permissions, display etc. and several modules that deal with the actual data. The output side, i.e. what will be used in the normal wikis, will be based on MediaWiki templates or functions. If you are curious, have a look on, let's say http://www.wikivoyage.org/ldb8/Ldb:de:São_Paulo for an example. But it's work in progress and will often crash while I'm working on it.


 * -- Hansm 09:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

contemporary and archaic
I wonder what the output would look like in hypothetical (hopefully) Greek WV. The output in the example is in German (I can tell from griech.). What will happen if the language version of WV has a different contemporary name and historical, but both languages are (were) the same? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say treat antic greek as an own language. Of course, we won't need a latin transcription if the wiki's language is already in modern greek. -- Hansm 09:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

edition and storage
Where the word griech. itself will be stored to be used only in German WV? Greco for Italian will be needed and so on. Where those pieces of text (indicating language names or abbreviations in different languages) for output in local versions of WV will be stored and accessible for edition? In one DB for all languages? In every local WV? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Internaly, the DB will think in IDs for everything. The string "griech." or whatever is only used for communication with humans that are not so familar with talking in IDs. I have the rough idea to make the mapping from IDs to strings configurable, but this are datails for the future. -- Hansm 09:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


Will list of types of the locations have to be defined from the beginning or will be flexible to be changed if neccessary? I am afraid it will require huge discussion comaprable to the ones about hierarchy of a place. LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There will be a set of possible types where editors of the locDB may choose from. The loc type can be changed afterwards. -- Hansm 09:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

towards standardization?
Caould you elaborate more on the concept of using it in articles? I generally wonder how Statistical and demographical Data, Distance tables, Climate Data will affect layout and usage of quickbar. Will the usage of layouts determine standardization of it? Or will usage of the templates above allow optional use, as it is now? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Some of this data is suitable in the quickbar, others, like distance tables, are probably better displayed in a seperate table. The inclusion will be done by templates, contributors can either use them or not. -- Hansm 09:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Data about infrastructure
Probably a typo, but did you intend to add inet-tld, as said in the description? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Distance tables
Not a technical question, but an editorial one: Do you plan to establish some rules limiting its usage and number of locations – I am afraid of cluttering into articles sections of size of MASH signpost ? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't intend to make limitations, but indeed, it's an editorial question. It will be in the contributor's task to make a reasonable selection of entries. -- Hansm 09:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

type
Is the list of possible types defined? For example I would gladly be able to input monthly average temperature throughout the year (tempAvg). LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The types will either be configurable or there will be an extensed set of possible types to choose. -- Hansm 10:02, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

chart concept
What is intended to look like? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, maybe like this, but the graph separated from the text. Some importand graphs might be included into the articles direcly, others perhaps better on a seperate page, maybe on shared. -- Hansm 10:02, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

types
Hierarchy of : seems to me like a list in need of continous development, even after introduction. Will it be open for editing (adding, moving) types for users? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

address
Well, I wonder about Chinese in this field, for example. Is it going to work with some transcription option? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

price
What do you think of making it default a text field for comments like reductions, happy hours, free for women, so on? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

pricecat
I wonder about future possibillities of updating this tag. I suppose someone may want one day to make it more detailed – even though 8 categories (A through H) is plenty. Wouldn't it be safer to leave it not in alphabetical ranks, but in text descriptions – like you proposed ex. noble, very cheap? LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

general remark
I'm not yet sure if it will be possible to put everything into the same sceme of the visit card. Maybe, there will be a basic visit card concept that would be extended by the needs of the certain type of sight, accomodation or whatever. -- Hansm 10:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Usability
In my opinion the templates present a powerful tool for editors and on the other hand make a clear direction towards standardization of articles. Therefore their introduction will require on one hand providing a number of help-type articles (on Shared?), and on the other working out at least a couple of editorial rules for their usage – but not necessarily already from the beginning. LukeWestwalker ⇔ 17:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)